OK, God exists. Now what?

OK, God exists. Now what? - Beliefnet Forums:

Drange emphasizes that any stance on 'Does God exist?' is made with respect to a particular concept of what one claims to consider 'God' to represent

The problem with this stance is that it focuses on the external characteristics of God rather than God.

If you talk about a home you talk about where a family of any size lives, the base from which they go out to do their thing in the rest of the world. What it is made of, how big it is, how many bathrooms, if any, it has are all useful in making inferences about those calling the place home, but are independent of the concept of whether homes exist....

If God is the referent for worship and reverence of a group of people of any size, questions of supernatural vs, natural, creator vs. created, real existence vs. imaginary existence, all become irrelevant. One can focus on important questions. Is God functional for believers? Is God functional for non-believers? Is God functional for the society in which it exists? Is God functional for the cosmopolitan world in which some of us live?

These are not trivial questions. One must examine the God,or the inference of God by studying the beliefs of the group to see if the particular God is acceptable....

J'C: This is where I think Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, et all are strategically in error. Only Dawkins even alludes to the functionality of God beliefs, and then uses only horrible examples of dysfunctionality to make his point. A believer in God is not going to be convinced God does not exist because the mythical accretions that have adhered over the ages are ridiculous. They already know that, but the accretions are helpful in defining the group and maintaining group unity. A believer may know that God is not a supernatural omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent alpha humanoid, these things cannot exist in a single entity. But believing anyway creates the sense of awe and reverence necessary for ceding some measure of control over ones life to God.

For some "Letting go and let God." is a necessary part of living a relatively meaningless life as an assembly line robot, barfly and couch potato. God works for them, they at least show up for work each day, and once a week God may send them to Habitat for Humanity or a soup kitchen to pay their social dues to their community.

Even a person who is none of the above may find God belief useful in eliminating questions of meaning and purpose from one's life and freeing them to pursue their muse, whatever that may be. Many of my friends never think about being alive and having to die. God takes care of all of that. They can build their Ponzi scheme, write their symphony, or build the computing cloud without a thought of why. In many ways this might be comforting. It would drive me nuts.

Atheists in Church.

Agnostics - Beliefnet Forums:

"I have attended churches (other than UU) all my life as an atheist. Usually with a friend who was a member of the Faith and knew of my atheism. I never pretended belief, and treated hymns and prayers as myths. Maybe as something to analyze for value, but myth nevertheless.

A Catholic friend of mine told me once that God even listens to the prayers of atheists, so when he asks me to pray for him I do so. I don't expect much, but he does, and maybe it will work for him. My cost? zero. His benefit? At the very least a warm feeling of concern by his friend. I am still looking for the downside.

I think if you scratch the surface beliefs of some of the members of many Christian congregations you would find that some will be quite atheistic. They are attending for the goals of promoting social and economic justice and genuine peace, and probably for social networking as well.

I got over the hypocrisy of pretending God belief a long time ago, in fact I would go so far as suspending disbelief in appropriate situations. What did I have to lose? Atheism? It never happened, but if it did, so what. Lots of people seem to live happily as theists."

Is atheism a BS?

Ignosticism - Beliefnet Forums:

I say there are no gods, but not all Atheists have the guts to come right out and say it.

Not the guts but the end product of the gut the BS.

And yes, the assertion that there are no gods is a Belief System, based on the rejection of all evidence to the contrary that does not meet the standards of the BS of materialism and antisupernaturalism. There is plenty of evidence of God belief, but the materialist BS asserts that God belief does not indicate the existence of the referent God because the God would be immaterial.

Extending the concept of atheism to aBSism I am an aBSist with respect to this BS as well as religious BS."

J'C: One of the major reasons I don't make a common cause with most of the noisy atheists out there, although I call myself an atheist, is that they battle all Gods instead of choosing the dysfunctional Abrahamic God particularly when unleavened with the Synoptic Gospel myths of Jesus. I have no problem admitting the existence of any God providing the God has a currently active set of believers to maintain the immaterial entity they call God. But the unleavened Abrahamic God has the petulance of a small child, the misogyny of most gods, and morals of a street bully. A thoroughly unpleasant entity, who should not be denied but opposed.

I don't worship any God, and no God has any influence on my life except what I choose to learn from believers, hence, atheism. But claiming God does not exist is an extremely misguided strategy.

How Science Works.

Do White Blood Cells Make Cancer Deadly?: Scientific American: "The issue contained a letter from three Czech doctors asking whether the fusion of tumor cells and white blood cells could cause cancers to spread, or metastasize. At the time, Pawelek was also reading a book by evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis, who pioneered the idea that life on earth was revolutionized by ancient cells engulfing one another and fusing together, forming hybrids that had better chances at survival. “I was really excited by the connection,” he recalls. “Since there was a precedent for hybridization in evolution, why not in cancer?”"

J'C: The article goes on to describe Pawelek's 15 year investigation of this hypothesis and starting with mice and finally moving on to human studies. It looks like he is on the verge of some important information on the mechanism of metastasis.

Daring Rescue of Humpback Off Farallones, SF Chronicle, 12/14/05 | Coral Reef Alliance

Daring Rescue of Humpback Off Farallones, SF Chronicle, 12/14/05 | Coral Reef Alliance: "Daring Rescue of Humpback Off Farallones, SF Chronicle, 12/14/05
By Peter Fimrite
A humpback whale freed by divers from a tangle of crab trap lines near the Farallon Islands nudged its rescuers and flapped around in what marine experts said was a rare and remarkable encounter.

'It felt to me like it was thanking us, knowing that it was free and that we had helped it,' James Moskito, one of the rescue divers, said Tuesday. 'It stopped about a foot away from me, pushed me around a little bit and had some fun.'

Sunday's daring rescue was the first successful attempt on the West Coast to free an entangled humpback, said Shelbi Stoudt, stranding manager for the Marine Mammal Center in Marin County.

The 45- to 50-foot female humpback, estimated to weigh 50 tons, was on the humpbacks' usual migratory route between the Northern California coast and Baja California when it became entangled in the nylon ropes that link crab pots."

J'C: And they say that whales are not sapient. She sure knew what those odd fish in the plastic flippers were doing for her. And she knew who freed her from her fatal trap.

Dolphins rescue humans caught in rip-tides, it is high time we returned the favor for those intelligent marine cousins.

The history of religion- Readers Digest version

The Bright Line... - Beliefnet Forums:

BUT the question is far deeper, that is how was it that from Gods first creatures, re...Adam and Eve came the non knowledge of God, that has come to become clinically known as Atheism?

As I remember the myth, Adam and Eve came to the non knowledge of God by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were thereby made independent of God and Herm 612 petty and picayune rules and could hold their heads high in their humanity and live according to the best interests of themselves, their family and their society based on that knowledge of good and evil from the fruit. Like most humans they screwed up occasionally, but they must have learned from their mistakes and were better people thereafter.

Apparently God got so disgusted with them that he adopted another tribe and made them toe the line of the 612 petty and picayune rules. Since no one could comply with them all it set the stage for Paul and his Christ to save everybody and since everybody broke one of the 612 rules he could make them all believe that they were sinners in need of salvation.

I guess the atheists just made a detour around the Israelis and therefore the Christians and just built on the knowledge of good and evil that Adam and Eve gave to their descendants. "

J'C: From an otherwise forgettable thread comes a weird comment that stimulated a smart-ass reply which then grew into an interesting myth. Hey if J can write fun myths why can't I. Now if only I can figure out how to lobby the canonizers...

Celebration: Charlie, Dad, Athlete, and so much else.

In celebration of the anniversary of his birth
January 5,1901


My Father's Shirt



I put on your blue flannel shirt,
The old one you loved, the color of sky,
Thin in the elbows and frayed at the neck,
That I saved from the throwaway pile
After you died and we went through your things.

I put on your soft flannel shirt,
The one that matched your blue eyes,
The gentle eyes that looked upon me
Full and tender with deep quiet love
That protected and taught me to trust.

I put on your warm flannel shirt
The one that matched your clear eyes
That stared up bright empty
When they wheeled in your cart
And I saw you for one final time.

I put on your blue flannel shirt
And feel the frayed softness surround me,
I see the blue eyes that through life and beyond
Shine with acceptance and warm tender care,

Loving me, holding me, keeping the vigil,
Embracing my spirit, and keeping me warm.

Bonnie Black

C'J: And the wonder is
I have the other one.

Spirituality vs. God

Society Without God :

"Spirituality is not belief in God. Spirituality is not belief in gods. Spirituality is not belief in the supernatural. Buddhism is a god free and largely supernatural free spiritual culture.

Spirituality is the wonder and joy of being alive and trying to make sense out of the world we live in. It is true that promoters of God or gods can hijack this wonder and joy and attribute it to God or gods, and create the impression that spirituality is identical with a supernatural God. But those of us who celebrate our spirituality without God, who can find joy and wonder in an electron micrograph or a fractal algorithm or an APOD image or thousands of everyday wonders presented to those alive enough to notice, need no supernatural omnipotent alpha humanoid for spiritual experiences. The natural world is more than adequate."

Are We Gods?

Are We Gods? :

"Yeah, and I must be a god because when I pray I know that I'm talking to myself."

The quote of the week from beliefnet. Thanks "Namchuck"

Anselm's Ontological Argument

Anselm's Ontological Argument :

"My problem with Anselm's argument is that it starts with a belief.

... we believe that thou art a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.

If the fool is a believer, then Anselm works. Within the belief space God must exist. Where I am different from the fool is that I don't believe.

I don't believe in God.

I don't believe in great beings that have not earned that designation by the accolades of contemporary or near contemporary historians and story tellers and who clearly existed as a real, living, human being. I don't even believe all the stories about great beings. It is not unusual for admirers of great beings to pad the resume, so to speak. These unbelievable stories do not impugn the credibility of the existence of the great being in fact they add to it. If starry eyed groupies didn't lie about their hero maybe hesh wasn't so great after all.

I don't believe in anything 'than which nothing greater can be conceived.' A random Hubble deep field image shows things greater than anything that can be conceived."

Jesus vs. Christians

Is Life Pointless? : "Please note that Jesus was a man. He was made a God by John and Paul whose Jesus Christ kept nothing of the message of kindness, love, charity and forgiveness. I think you are right that rational Americans prefer Jesus, too bad that none of them are Christian."

Mistbows and wonder

Is there really such a thing...? - Beliefnet Forums: "But even with these loose definitions of God I am an atheist. I get my spiritual, moral, and meaning reinforcement from my society and the world I enjoy living in. If I spend a day hiking the mist trail to Nevada Falls enjoying the play of the sun in the mist, I am not thanking a creator for the experience I am celebrating the fact that I can still do that. Understanding the physics of the mistbows


in no way diminishes the wonder and enjoyment of the experience."

Is a story a message?

Is Heinlein the atheist's philosopher? - : "If the message in art or storytelling seems more important than the story or the art the package will fail. However, a story without a message is destined to the dustbin of pulp fiction, read once and discarded without a thought. It is no wonder that the function of pulp fiction, that is mindless escape from the real world has been taken over by Video and UTube. Before you beat me with that dolly again, there are Videos with important messages behind the storyboard, and maybe there is even an important UTube out there, but you can bet it is entertaining as well as meaningful. The very few that are willing to think about the meaning behind the entertainment will keep it circulating in blogspace or the next big thing for people who can and do think."

Literature or Philosophy?

Is Heinlein the atheist's philosopher? : "One of the best and most popular courses in my brief stint as a philosophy major was a course entitled 'Philosophy in Literature.' The premise was that perhaps Shakespeare, Aquinas, Homer, Milton, Sartre, and Joyce were telling us more about the philosophy of their time than the academics, either historians or philosophers. One of the reasons I quit Philosophy as a major was the isolation from real life of the philosophers I was studying. I found myself going to the literature and music of the time to find out what was really going on. If you think about it, a novelist or other artist that wants to survive on herm art had better have a pretty good handle on the prevailing philosophy of the time. Not incidentally it is much more interesting studying philosophy in the context of a rollicking good story, than plowing through paragraph long sentences of meaningless words."

J'C: I find it much the same in music. The academics were pushing the cerebral envelope with studies of atonality, noise and silence, while the tenor of the times was being expressed in the movie scores and advert music. I find it amusing that modern "Classical" music is almost entirely movie scores. Of course Tchaikovsky only wrote popular music of his time also.

Sir Alex and his Squire

Facebook | Videos Posted by Elizabeth Black: Sir Alex and his Squire

Grandson Alex with his new toy Thanks to Greg Stone and Jack Van Breen who helped get the right bass within the budget.

On Blank Books

Is Life Pointless?: "

I pick up this book of blank pages, and I say 'There's no story here.'

I think I will pick up a book of blank pages and see if I can write a better story that works for me. I just received an incredible gift from my sister, a small blank book with a poem on every page. Each page made many points of meaning for me and our friends and relatives. I will spend more time on that 'blank' book than on any book of ancient myths that are no longer even relevant to living."

WOLCUM YOLE

Our holiday started at the solstice with greetings all around for a wonder filled new year for all, and ended with a concert recital at a beautiful local Chamber Hall for her students at the concert level. The youngest being her usual 6 yr old prodigy playing Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, and Mozart, the oldest only 14 this year, and her 8 yr old star playing all sorts of things 8 yr olds can't play like a Beethoven Sonata Allegro and Rachmaninoff. An incredibly good day topped off with the Christmas Eve present opening.

It all bodes well for a great new year filled with wonderful music and the daily wonders that randomly make life worth greeting each sunrise with elation, expectation, and joy. It is no accident that my bed faces East.

Was Mary Magdalene "Q"

Who do people say the Son of Man is?:

"As I understand the 'Q document' its very existence as a 'document' is an inference. I find it much more likely that Q was a companion of Jesus for much or all of his ministry, had a good memory for what he said at the various gatherings and related those to the disciples along with other lore that may have been less important to the disciples in their cult building. Hesh probably was what would be termed today a groupie, probably was not literate, as it is unlikely that hesh had any relationship with the priesthood. The reason I am using the gender inclusive pronoun is that I find it probable that Q was female." And yes, I think of "Q" as Mary Magdalene.

Also I think Mary was much more important to the ministry of Jesus than the men who wrote the histories would even think of giving her credit for. I suspect that social conversations between the two were instrumental in developing Jesus' overall gospel of respect and love for ones neighbor.

WOLCUM YOLE

Christmas :

"As we approach the Solstice (7:04am EST Sunday), and all of the various holidays that have appropriated the end of the darkest night as a promise of better things to come:

Da Capo al fine
WOLCUM YOLE
MERRY CHRISTMAS
HAPPY HANUKKA
JOYFUL KWANZAAfine

and let us not forget all the Scrooges, Grinches, and other Curmudgeons:

BAH, HUMBUG
and may the spirit of the season infect you as well to bring you to Da Capo
__________________"

Is Obama different?

The following is an excerpt from an email to me from the transition team:

Dear [J'Carlin]

Over the coming weeks, thousands of Americans will be leading Health Care Community Discussions -- small local gatherings in which Americans are sharing thoughts and ideas about reforming health care. President-elect Obama and Health and Human Services Secretary-designate Tom Daschle are counting on Americans from every walk of life to help identify what's broken and provide ideas for how to fix it.

You can help shape that reform by leading your own Health Care Community Discussion anytime between now and December 31st.

All this and more, for $25 that's right, no zeros after the $25 to the transition team and an email with a suggestion about health care to the campaign team.

Incredible. Hey, I always wanted to be like Cheney and hold my own policy meeting, now I can.

Is tribal morality an evolutionary selection parameter?

A question on morality :

"It is hard to say anything is wrong in an evolutionary sense, since either it will work and the species will flourish, or it won't and the species will die out. For social animals the situation becomes more complicated as the evolutionary unit seems to be the herd, pack, or in the case of humans, tribe, village, or parish. From an evolutionary standpoint that which enhances the survivability of the tribe, becomes good, or if you will, evolutionarily favorable.

Morality, that is compliance with the rules and customs of social interaction of the tribe becomes simply another evolutionary selection parameter. Tribes with functional morals survive, those with dysfunctional morals die out.

The main advantage of God is that Hesh conserves (ossifies) moral systems that helped the particular tribe flourish under a certain set of conditions. As long as conditions don't change much and the tribe flourishes under those conditions, one can say that God based morality is an evolutionary advantage.

I can't think of conditions that would favor a child torturing tribe, but under conditions that favor properly nurtured and highly educated adults, if the torturers had to compete for resources with tribes that didn't torture their children I predict they would lose out in a few generations.

It seems to me that such an evolutionary situation is playing out right now in the treatment of women in society. Some tribes are systematically removing half their population from the knowledge based competition for intellectual property. (Some tribes seem to be eliminating their entire population from this competition, but that is a different issue.) It will be interesting to see whether these tribes are able to compete in the cosmopolitan world that seems to be the evolutionary niche humans are beginning to occupy.

Christmas time again

Christmas :

What are we celebrating? Winter solstice? A symbolic 're-birth?'

I celebrate the one known miracle that happens every day: the birth of a human being. Having the baby Jesus stand in for all of us doesn't bother me a bit, he was after all human. The Herald Angels of myth sing for all birthings, and it is good to be reminded of that at Christmas, and to be reminded that they sing for all births, the lowly cradled in a manger as well as those cradled in the latest hi tech birthing suites.

The overlay of all the solstice celebrations is 'Wolcum' as well with the food and the drinks to warm everybody to the season. My traditional greeting is "Wolcum Yole" from Britten's Ceremony of Carols which is a staple of my Christmas mix.

A righteous celebration for the season, I enjoy it immensely."

There's no such thing as an atheist.

There's no such thing :

"True atheists are quite common although you are right that they seldom describe themselves as such. Many atheists go to church for the fellowship, networking, and social functions, and go through the motions of praying, and 'worshiping' but are quite aware that God is a tradition and not an entity. They depend on God for nothing in their lives, expect no response from God to their prayers, and worship, and manage their lives as if God does not exist. Very few, however take the next step and build a network of independent people to take the place of the church and finally break the dependence on religion. Only then will they start to self-identify as an atheist.

Other than occasionally on beliefnet discussions I can go months at a time without even thinking about being an atheist. God is just not a part of anything I do or think about. Morality and purpose come from those I call my society and although some of those I call my society are theists, their God has nothing to do with my life other than helping them be good people."

Played Carnegie Hall one more time!

.
As a registered alumnus of the New York Choral Society, an unbelievable email appeared in my inbox recently. The alumni who sang with Peter Paul and Mary in earlier concerts were invited to join them on stage at Carnegie Hall for the sing-along half of the concert.

No question of my not being there, and logistics were doable, so in conjunction with a Christmas visit with family in St. Louis another whirlwind trip to NYC happened.

It was, as they say, priceless. Despite worries about her health Mary put on her usual fantastic show and Peter Yarrow's Light One Candle is as relevant today as it was when it was written with its

Light one candle for the strength that we need
To never become our own foe.

To be a part of the show and see friends still active in the chorus after 20 years since I left New York was simply wonderful and a memory that will last as long as I do.

Always been an atheist?

Always been an atheist? :

"

I would like to know if you have, pretty much, always been an atheist.

All of my family members who were important to me were atheists, at a time when that was not particularly common. My immediate family were Unitarians when there were Unitarian Churches available and participated for social and fellowship reasons rather than religious reasons. When I was very young we lived in a small town where the liberal Presbyterian church (I think) was their substitute. The Unitarian Sunday School had a heavy emphasis on 'The Church Across the Street' and we would frequently go to neighboring religious institutions on a Sunday or Saturday if appropriate and then come back and discuss what we learned for a few Sundays before it was time to visit the next group. We were also encouraged to accompany friends to worship services and report back to the class what we learned.

It never occurred to me that God was anything but a unifying myth for the other churches, and I never was tempted to "believe." I did however gain an intense interest in the content of the myths and spent much of my spare time trying to figure out what it was that the various groups got from their worship. I spent more time with Catholic myths due to my choral music avocation, as large choral works are mainly settings of Catholic prayers and the Mass. Catholics since the Renaissance have recognized that "music is fundamental" and have encouraged musical expressions of their beliefs.

The result is an atheist with no need for God or any god for that matter, but I do appreciate the various religious myths and have no issues with those that choose to believe in them. The Abrahamic myths which are not tempered by a clear understanding of the Synoptic Gospels are misogynistic and hateful IMO and to the extent that they try to impose their misogyny and hate on the rest of us they should be opposed, but I don't see much that can be done within their church walls. Hate and misogyny fill the plate and attract the weak males that pay the bills, so I doubt an outsider can do much to change anything. When they come onto a forum like beliefnet we can hammer them with the facts of the rest of the world (I would have used truth, but they think they have a trademark on the word.)

Are atheists accountable?

Held accountable? - Beliefnet Forums:

Is it fair to say that atheists don't think we will be held accountable for what we have done in our life?

I will not be held accountable by some supernatural omnipotent alpha humanoid at some imagined judgment day after I am dead and gone. But I am held accountable in real time by those who are affected by my actions. Humans are intensely social animals, and a raised eyebrow on someone we respect is instant and powerful accountability.

Similarly, something as simple as a toast with a plastic glass of orange juice on an airplane can be a powerful reminder that we need to pay continuous attention to our relationship with those closest to us.

Sometimes I wonder, if people who obsess about that Dies Irae don't miss out on these here and now accountability lessons."

Does God Exist?

A Muslim respectfully asks - What is Atheism? - Beliefnet Forums:

"I find the existence of God to be an uninteresting question. Some people find belief in the existence of God comforting for a variety of reasons, some good and some not so good, and I have no issue with their beliefs. I have found none of these reasons relevant to my life, and therefore have no reason to care whether God exists or not. My life goes on exactly the same in either case."

what an atheist think when he hear a man of science says : my results force me to admit there is a God.

"That is nice"

If a belief in God makes a person a better scientist, or a better person I am all for it. If however, the belief makes herm bigoted, or self righteous, I am likely to oppose herm attempts to proselytize or otherwise force bigotry on the rest of the world. The belief that bigotry comes from God gives them no pass. It just condemns their God. As Jesus said Matt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Rotten fruits are evidence of a rotten God.

Tax Churches' entertainment venues.

Help- "Proof" issues - Beliefnet Forums:

Tax breaks for providing services to the community that the government cannot afford to provide. I think that is reasonable.

If churches registered their charities as 501(c) organizations separate from their entertainment venues, I would have no problems with deductions to those charities. I do have a problem with special tax treatment for the entertainment venues aka churches and the entertainers who perform in them aka preachers, pastors, ministers etc. I especially object to religious organizations selling tax exempt property without paying back taxes on it out of the proceeds."

Write your congressperson, sign petition, do something

Stop the Sneak Attack on Greater Yellowstone Wolves - The Petition Site: "



Stop the Sneak Attack on Greater Yellowstone Wolves
Target: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Sponsored by: Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund

With the clock running out on the Bush/Cheney Administration, federal officials have launched a final attempt to ram through a plan that could lead to the slaughter of as many as two-thirds of the Greater Yellowstone and Northern Rockies wolf population."

Or as Tom Toles warns

Survival

Human Dignity, Good and Evil - Beliefnet Forums:

The desire to survive is a sentiment.

The genes to compel survival are dominant and active in all animals including humans that are alive today. From the single celled amoeba to those miraculous culminations of all those evolutionary selection activities, my grandsons, the compulsion to eat and breathe, and

Run and find out (thanks Ricki-Ticki-Tavi)

in other words survive in the modern world, is alive and well and involves no sentiment at all."

Why a Jesuist?

Who do people say the Son of Man is? - Beliefnet Forums:

"Paul is the reason I am not a Christian. God is the reason I am an atheist. Jesus is the reason I and many nominal Christians are Jesuists."

Can I join the Circus now?

Ben Sargent documents the Republicans latest attempt to stay in the public eye. Hey, if you can't govern them, at least you can entertain them.

Forrest Church discusses the odds.

STANFORD Magazine: Forrest Church Book Excerpt:

Believe me, there's nothing like a kick toward the flag to get the old blood pumping and the crowd off their bums cheering. Besides, without even trying, you've already won the only race that really matters. Unconsciously, yet omnipresent, you ran the gauntlet of stars and genomes to assume your full, nothing less than miraculous, place in the creation. Being alive to love and hurt, to fail and recover, to prove your grit and show compassion, that is life's true secret.

Leave it to Stanford to pick out the unusual in Forrest's new book. And leave it to Forrest to turn Silky Sullivan's loss in the Kentucky Derby into an inspiring sermon.

Why Catholics are irrelevant.

Priest Calls Vote for Obama a Mortal Sin - On Faith at washingtonpost.com:

"'Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law,' Rev. Jay Scott Newman wrote in a letter to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville.

'Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation.'"

As if anyone needed any more evidence. All of the Catholics I know are by now bypassing their priests and dealing directly with God. All the priests are for is to make the soothing noises in the Mass, and bless the Eucharist. A few parishes have reasonable priests that they can talk to, but the rest....

To Nambu, Kobayasi, and Maskawa

Greetings and congratulations from my sister and Poet Laureate


To Nambu, Kobayasi, and Maskawa,
Physics Nobel Prize Winners, 2008

with apologies to William Blake


A break in the symmetry--how cosmic a thought;
A break in the symmetry, and all that it wrought.
We’d none of us be here, not you and not me,
Were it not for a break in the first symmetry.

Curious Adam and gullible Eve,
Banished from Eden, as some folks believe,
Their tale of the apple would simply not be,
Had there not been a break in their symmetry.

Mendel and Darwin, asymmetrical sages,
Genetic codes journeying down through the ages;
Ten million mutations, strange creatures to see,
All due to that break in the great symmetry.

One infinitesimal break, so inconspicuously small,
That even old Einstein didn’t see it at all;
Now wonder of wonders, the Bang and the bee,
All thanks to that break in the first symmetry.

Consider the outcomes--or just nevermind;
‘Tis likely my DNA’s about to unwind,
Some slight imperfection on a upsidedown spree,
Seeking new breaks in my symmetry.

© 2008 Bonnie Black

Will the Requiem for religion be played on Twitter?

Humanist Question : "

From where I stand [religion] is mind control and if people can learn to break free from that bondage and question limits they are not 'suppose to' question it would be like another renaissance period!

If you think back to the renaissance and religion what do you think of? Gutenberg gave the bible to the people and broke the power of the priesthood in interpreting the will of God. The increase in literacy and all the Bills thinking 4 themselves
after using the Bible to learn to read lead inevitably to the Enlightenment and the rise of ordinary people to political power as a counterforce to the power of the church.

The internet social networking may be the next and final blow to the power of religion. Web 2.0 divorced Obama from the Democratic party, and will almost certainly divorce most young adults from the need for the church as a social networking organization. When the Mullahs and the Bishops can say behave this way or you will never find a lover and make it stick, their power is increased by those there only for the social networking.

When you have to twitter on your iPhone to get the attention of your roommate at the other computer, you aren't going to waste time going to church to find a suitable partner for fun and games. "What are you doing?" "OO 4 swty sprt - Gd /rqd" The Mullahs and Bishops scream but calls to prayers on Twitter are not likely to even be read.

GM's future

According to Tony Auth

Obama on his faith.

Obama's Fascinating Interview with Cathleen Falsani - Steven Waldman:

"I retain from my childhood and my experiences growing up a suspicion of dogma. And I'm not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I've got a monopoly on the truth, or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.

I'm a big believer in tolerance. I think that religion at it's best comes with a big dose of doubt. I'm suspicious of too much certainty in the pursuit of understanding just because I think people are limited in their understanding.

I think that, particularly as somebody who's now in the public realm and is a student of what brings people together and what drives them apart, there's an enormous amount of damage done around the world in the name of religion and certainty."

This whole interview, just after he was nominated for the Senate race in Illinois, is well worth reading

Christmas time again

Pharyngula: Oy, it's War on Christmas time again:

It is OK to say 'Merry Christmas'. Even I have been known to say it. Go ahead, have a good time with the greeting, although it does rather rip the spirit out of it if you say it through clenched teeth with furrowed brow, looking like you're daring everyone to object so you can punch them in the throat. It's also OK to say 'Happy Solstice,' 'Season's Greetings,' 'Happy Holidays,' and 'Merry Cephalopodmas,' whatever feels right to you."

I have always liked "Wolcum Yole!" which Benjamin Britten popularized in his Ceremony of Carols. It seems to be a 14th Century folk song. that he used as his text for the opening piece after the processional.

I think the Ceremony of Carols is a wonderful celebration of all that is good about an English Christmas. Lots of pagan rhythms and fun winter party music.

Just Deserts

Or if you prefer Tom Toles take.

A million small donors

If the world could vote - Beliefnet Forums:

"I think the most important fact of the election was the million or so people who donated less than $200 to the campaign. We got nothing but spam for it, but the fact that so many contributed to his success is I think significant and personally I hope the spam continues with opportunities for feedback. Yeah, it will be poll data, but poll data from those that spent the bucks to help."

What is wrong with civil unions?

Why are Christians so obsessed with homosexuality and gay marriage? - Beliefnet Forums:

"The problem I have with civil unions is the separate but equal issue. It is the old, gays are all right as long as they lock the bedroom door and exit the house by separate doors. If my life partner, in my case female, needs some help with the bureaucracy, I want to have the status of spouse so that I can climb all over the idiots behind the desk. That is why we got the marriage certificate and had the ceremony to celebrate it. We could have had the sex and the living together without all the hassle and fuss, but it would not have been marriage. That is what you are asking the gay's to do. No marriage, no respect for the partner. It is that simple."

Human Dignity, Good and Evil - Beliefnet Forums

Human Dignity, Good and Evil - Beliefnet Forums: "You may sit out this election, which I admit is better than voting for McCain ... But there is a huge difference in which Christian God is going to be driving the Government. Your choice is the hate filled Christian™ God of those who think Atheists are not Americans or the UCC God which is inclusive and comparatively tolerant."

Pharyngula

Pharyngula: "Has anybody thought to look at what Bill Ayers actually promotes? He has a website, and it's trivial to look up what he's advocating. For instance, here is a description of his book, Teaching Toward Feedom:"

I was there in New York when the Weathermen were active. I chose other ways to protest the dysfunctional presidency of the time, but I was certainly a fellow traveler in protesting the war and the hate filled presidency. This was in the 60s not the 00s

Alaska Road would Destroy Wilderness in Izembek National Wildlife Refuge - The Petition Site

Alaska Road would Destroy Wilderness in Izembek National Wildlife Refuge - The Petition Site: "7:17 am PST, Nov 3, Carlin Black, California


If Alaska destroys its wildlife refuges it might as well sink the cruise boats. Those of us from the South 48 don't visit for the roads, and we resent the destruction of migratory bird habitat."

Vote NO on Prop H8.

- Beliefnet Forums:

"Bad Christians need Christ, and the rest of Paul to justify their evil.

This is not an academic issue.

Christians are promoting Proposition H8 in California as we write."

Palin - The mighty hunter

First the moose, then wolves, now elephants.

Tom Toles

The gay marriage wedge.

Why are Christians so obsessed with homosexuality and gay marriage? - Beliefnet Forums:

"I think homosexuality and gay marriage are simply the politically correct whipping boys for those Christians that accept the Pauline principle that sex is for procreation only and any other expression of sexuality is sin. It would be hard to generate a political movement against recreational sex in general but homosexuality and gay marriage are wedge issues that can establish the legitimacy of political regulation of sexual activities.

First the gays, then the fornicators, and pretty soon cameras in the bedrooms to insure no contraception and the missionary position only."

Forrest Church -Link to personal website.

Forrest Church, Theologian and Author:

"Available now from Beacon Press:

Forrest Church's highly praised new book,
Love and Death

'The story of the Rev. Forrest Church of the All Soul's Church in Manhattan is a profile in courage. Not just for his lifelong work helping those less fortunate, but for his perseverance in the face of a fatal illness.'"

Atheism's roots.

Expelled discussion - Beliefnet Forums:

"My atheism is firmly rooted in the dysfunctional morality and meaning promoted by theists and especially by the Abrahamic tradition in the Talmud and derivatives and by Pauline Christianity. The fact that they also promote bad science of all kinds is sort of the stem on the cherry. There are so many more important issues that if someone sees me sucking on the stem they shouldn't think it is the only thing I care about."