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Thursday, June 19, 2008
God is neither natural nor imaginary.
God Helmets OBEs Illusions and a Cosmic Presence. - Beliefnet Forums: "The God that my believer friends pray to and depend on for meaning and purpose in their lives is neither explainable by the physical sciences we are familiar with today, nor imaginary. They are tapping into some reservoir of collective wisdom about living in their society."
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Well, my spiritual atheist friend, you have now come full circle and apparently landed on a similar balconey that I use to view the world. The term "atheist" is also used in common language to mean "a lack of belief in a Supreme Being" where that Being is understood to be a sentient entity.
Can a collective consciousness be called a sentient entity? I would say yes, hence my definition of atheist as one who does not pay any attention to such an entity,or for whom that sentient entity does not achieve the role of supreme being.
[Got interrupted; this is a continuation:]
Many years ago I decide there was no God but there was "something." Our old friend Charles F. inspired me to renew the quest and gave me some ideas as to "where to look." One of the "rooms" I looked in was Transtheism; next month I am meeting the principle author of this very new religion for 4 days in South Carolina. I have been helping him and his friend who does most of his writing edit their book on Spiritual Sovereinty and we meet to complete the book and ready it, finally, for publication publication.
The only words in this proposition are I find hard to accept as stated are:
imaginary - in its broadest sense, imaginary means "mind images" and that is not in itself "a value judgment" - too often we dismiss mind images carrying important information because the are not objectively real;"resevoir of collective wisdom" - I am finding the resevoir here, theses days http://www.theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4069
I think you may be granting too large a coherence to "collective consciousness." I am still seeking the psychological description of the collective consciousness experienced during a mass.
Thanks for the reminder of Charles Fiterman His immortality in the froggy jar is secure.
Don't look in the psychology literature for a description of collective consciousness. Go to a Mass, suspend disbelief, and experience it for yourself. Psychologists are still riding on Blü's merry-go-round.
I've been to many masses.....graduated from Seattle University a Jesuit School. What I didn't do was suspend disbelief; perhaps that is the secret.
to j'carlin... wondering who you are and how you knew my dad was in a froggy(cookie)jar...mia fiterman
Mia-
Who of us who knew and loved your dad, if only through the internet, could forget the story on his beliefnet appreciation thread that dampened many a cheek?
For those of us in social groups that are a miniscule percentage of the population like intelligent atheists, sometimes the internet is the only way to find friends and make meaningful social ties. I was inordinately proud to call Charles my friend, and was pleased that you considered all of us at beliefnet good enough friends with your father to share the story of Gribbett or should I say Gaggle and the Froggy jar.
Our collective debt to Charles/Gaius at beliefnet is unmeasurable. He helped create and defined the Atheist Debate board. Much of what he posted is still relevant and I am happy to link to the many threads that he posted to. I have most of them indexed and frequently return to them just to privately refresh my connection to your wonderful dad. He may be in a Froggy Jar, but in the atheist way, he is still my friend, and I remember him often.
J'Carlin is the public face of jcarlinbn on beliefnet, and is the "Mr. Carlin" that inspired your froggy post on beliefnet which is linked to your father's name above.
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