GM's future

According to Tony Auth

Obama on his faith.

Obama's Fascinating Interview with Cathleen Falsani - Steven Waldman:

"I retain from my childhood and my experiences growing up a suspicion of dogma. And I'm not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I've got a monopoly on the truth, or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.

I'm a big believer in tolerance. I think that religion at it's best comes with a big dose of doubt. I'm suspicious of too much certainty in the pursuit of understanding just because I think people are limited in their understanding.

I think that, particularly as somebody who's now in the public realm and is a student of what brings people together and what drives them apart, there's an enormous amount of damage done around the world in the name of religion and certainty."

This whole interview, just after he was nominated for the Senate race in Illinois, is well worth reading

Christmas time again

Pharyngula: Oy, it's War on Christmas time again:

It is OK to say 'Merry Christmas'. Even I have been known to say it. Go ahead, have a good time with the greeting, although it does rather rip the spirit out of it if you say it through clenched teeth with furrowed brow, looking like you're daring everyone to object so you can punch them in the throat. It's also OK to say 'Happy Solstice,' 'Season's Greetings,' 'Happy Holidays,' and 'Merry Cephalopodmas,' whatever feels right to you."

I have always liked "Wolcum Yole!" which Benjamin Britten popularized in his Ceremony of Carols. It seems to be a 14th Century folk song. that he used as his text for the opening piece after the processional.

I think the Ceremony of Carols is a wonderful celebration of all that is good about an English Christmas. Lots of pagan rhythms and fun winter party music.

Just Deserts

Or if you prefer Tom Toles take.

A million small donors

If the world could vote - Beliefnet Forums:

"I think the most important fact of the election was the million or so people who donated less than $200 to the campaign. We got nothing but spam for it, but the fact that so many contributed to his success is I think significant and personally I hope the spam continues with opportunities for feedback. Yeah, it will be poll data, but poll data from those that spent the bucks to help."

What is wrong with civil unions?

Why are Christians so obsessed with homosexuality and gay marriage? - Beliefnet Forums:

"The problem I have with civil unions is the separate but equal issue. It is the old, gays are all right as long as they lock the bedroom door and exit the house by separate doors. If my life partner, in my case female, needs some help with the bureaucracy, I want to have the status of spouse so that I can climb all over the idiots behind the desk. That is why we got the marriage certificate and had the ceremony to celebrate it. We could have had the sex and the living together without all the hassle and fuss, but it would not have been marriage. That is what you are asking the gay's to do. No marriage, no respect for the partner. It is that simple."

Human Dignity, Good and Evil - Beliefnet Forums

Human Dignity, Good and Evil - Beliefnet Forums: "You may sit out this election, which I admit is better than voting for McCain ... But there is a huge difference in which Christian God is going to be driving the Government. Your choice is the hate filled Christian™ God of those who think Atheists are not Americans or the UCC God which is inclusive and comparatively tolerant."

Pharyngula

Pharyngula: "Has anybody thought to look at what Bill Ayers actually promotes? He has a website, and it's trivial to look up what he's advocating. For instance, here is a description of his book, Teaching Toward Feedom:"

I was there in New York when the Weathermen were active. I chose other ways to protest the dysfunctional presidency of the time, but I was certainly a fellow traveler in protesting the war and the hate filled presidency. This was in the 60s not the 00s

Alaska Road would Destroy Wilderness in Izembek National Wildlife Refuge - The Petition Site

Alaska Road would Destroy Wilderness in Izembek National Wildlife Refuge - The Petition Site: "7:17 am PST, Nov 3, Carlin Black, California


If Alaska destroys its wildlife refuges it might as well sink the cruise boats. Those of us from the South 48 don't visit for the roads, and we resent the destruction of migratory bird habitat."

Vote NO on Prop H8.

- Beliefnet Forums:

"Bad Christians need Christ, and the rest of Paul to justify their evil.

This is not an academic issue.

Christians are promoting Proposition H8 in California as we write."

Palin - The mighty hunter

First the moose, then wolves, now elephants.

Tom Toles

The gay marriage wedge.

Why are Christians so obsessed with homosexuality and gay marriage? - Beliefnet Forums:

"I think homosexuality and gay marriage are simply the politically correct whipping boys for those Christians that accept the Pauline principle that sex is for procreation only and any other expression of sexuality is sin. It would be hard to generate a political movement against recreational sex in general but homosexuality and gay marriage are wedge issues that can establish the legitimacy of political regulation of sexual activities.

First the gays, then the fornicators, and pretty soon cameras in the bedrooms to insure no contraception and the missionary position only."

Forrest Church -Link to personal website.

Forrest Church, Theologian and Author:

"Available now from Beacon Press:

Forrest Church's highly praised new book,
Love and Death

'The story of the Rev. Forrest Church of the All Soul's Church in Manhattan is a profile in courage. Not just for his lifelong work helping those less fortunate, but for his perseverance in the face of a fatal illness.'"

Atheism's roots.

Expelled discussion - Beliefnet Forums:

"My atheism is firmly rooted in the dysfunctional morality and meaning promoted by theists and especially by the Abrahamic tradition in the Talmud and derivatives and by Pauline Christianity. The fact that they also promote bad science of all kinds is sort of the stem on the cherry. There are so many more important issues that if someone sees me sucking on the stem they shouldn't think it is the only thing I care about."

Is Heinlein the atheist's philosopher?

Is Heinlein the atheist's philosopher? - Beliefnet Forums:

"I have been reading Heinlein most of my life, and have always appreciated how he manages to create interesting, meaningful, purposeful and moral societies in his stories without God. I don't necessarily agree with all of the details in all of them, but in general I can say that Heinlein speaks for me as an atheist exposing the lie that meaning, purpose and morality come only from God.

I appreciate the fact that Heinlein preferred the liveliness of the market place rather than the halls of academia for his philosophical musings. Maybe all the best philosophers are good story tellers.

He was, and is, an influential social arbitrator, in spite of all the efforts to ban his books from our libraries and schools. The God Squad recognizes the danger. But the books still sell and are discussed in intelligent circles."

Why we don't screw around with Social Security.

Jeff Danziger.

In the famous words of the Title of Fred Schwed's 1940 book Where are the Customers' Yachts?

Freethought Halls of the Internet

Atheist Activism - Beliefnet Forums:

"Perhaps it is time to devote more effort to establishing a global network of Freethought Halls to serve as an alternative to faith-based outreach programs.

You are in it. It is called the Internet.

This is one of the halls. There are many others.

Even the thought police of the theocracies cannot block the satellite internet signals, although they can make the computers that receive them contraband. But book burning and computer banning cannot work, because the freethought underground will hand copy the important tracts if necessary."

Goldwater, Obama and American Politics.

Libertarianism: - Beliefnet Forums:

"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice.
Barry Goldwater

Our last great attempt to elect a Libertarian.

Unfortunately, also the last election where it was not necessary to choose between two nutcases. At least this election only two of the four are nutcases. I still think Hillary was the best president we ever had, too bad she had to marry a nutcase to get elected, but American politics has always been like that. At least Obama is overqualified as is necessary for a minority in this country.

Ah, American Politics. Maybe the internet will change that finally, so that an intelligent, qualified and maybe some time even an atheist candidate would have a chance at being elected."

Humanity's fall away from God is our salvation

Human Dignity, Good and Evil - Beliefnet Forums:

"If opposing those like Hitler are reflections of man's fallen nature, thank you, I will fall back on my basic humanity, and my social morality associated with it of opposing leaders of all stripes using hatred, bigotry and fear to motivate 'their people.' If some of these leaders claim to be motivated by God, they get no pass from those motivated by the basic human morality of respect and tolerance for all who reciprocate in kind.

Unfortunately, some little Christian tinhorns in fancy dresses in the overdecorated balconies, use these tactics in the image of God and must be opposed. Those of us who must fall back on our basic human morality, will try to use non-violent opposition where possible, which sometimes gets us in trouble, but the examples of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, both dark skinned you may note, unlike the white skin in the depictions of God in most Christian churches, give us hope that our basic human morality will ultimately prevail."

The Historical Jesus

The Historical Christ non-existant? - Beliefnet Forums:

"If you strip the obvious miracles, especially the resurrection, which Christians cannot do of course without destroying their faith, you find a charismatic itinerant preacher, who integrated a consistent message of radical humanism and independence from the god mediators, priests, and shamans. It was a theistic culture so it is not surprising that he would believe in God. The core of his message was to develop a personal relationship with God directly, no priests necessary or even desirable, and treat all humans as neighbors to be respected, aided when necessary even at considerable cost to yourself, and loved as one loves oneself....

Cults are not started by committees, which for me argues strongly that there was a historical person that was the basis for the Jesus cult for which there is some historical evidence, Paul's Christian Cult. for which there is ample historical support, the Gnostic cults, for which historical documentation has recently been discovered, and other cults rumored but for which no documentation exists.

It is clear to me that this historical person was a human that lived and died in the usual human fashion. He believed in God, but was not one himself. He was the earliest documented humanist, and I think all humanists, theistic and atheistic are indebted to him, if not obligated to worship him.

37...Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:37-40 (King James Version)

I find the first optional, clearly an artifact of his culture. All of humanism hangs on the second."

Obama's negative ad

As I was leaving the debate midway, McCain complained about Obama's attack ad on his medical care proposal. If attacking an idiotic centerpiece of an opponent's campaign is negative campaigning, I would like to hear a clue from McCain on a reasonable debate. But then, that would assume McCain has an clue.

God and Evil Cont.

Why Athism? - Beliefnet Forums:

"Almost all Gods that are at the root of evil are believed to be supernatural. Frankly, I don't think the secular gods like money, power, prestige etc. carry enough belief intensity to compel evil. If a person cannot believe the claim 'God made me do it,' I don't think any sane human is capable of evil.

Disclaimer to our respectful guests: God is also capable of motivating much that is exceptionally good for believers and the world. And also that which is good for believers and their societies. Unfortunately, much of it depends on that little tinhorn in the fancy dress in the overdecorated balcony who interprets the will of God."

God - The Root of Evil

Why Athism? :

"

I would probably say selfishness is the root of all evil more than fear.

Nope.

God is the root of all evil. I don't care what God it is. Evil done by people is always in the service of their God."

Trickle down economics

Finally we really get to see what they mean.

Tom Toles.

Make the good people nice.

uuworld.org Meg Barnhouse: the church and the unicorn:
"We know we are supposed to be kind and loving and not jump down each other’s throats for not getting the right kind of free-trade coffee or greeting visitors too enthusiastically. I heard a poem on the radio the other day, part of which was a prayer: “Ye Gods…make the bad people good—and the good people nice.”

Honey, we’re trying."

Make the good people nice. If God could do that I might even believe in Herm.

Life After Death?

Life After Death? - Beliefnet Forums:

"

...does it also mean that you don't believe in some sort of existence beyond this one? Or are those two totally separate things--so would you find some who do and some who don't?

I would suspect that a person that does not put herm faith in God would have first resolved the Pascal Wager and arranged their life so that an afterlife is irrelevant. That is if there is one all participate, doing pretty much what they did in observable life with no sorting, hence no placating an alleged sorter. But in my experience most atheists think it is such a long shot that they don't think about it at all."

For me it is simply a pleasant fantasy to assist in remembering and celebrating those who are dead. As in: it would be nice to ask Beethoven what he was thinking about in the third movements of the first and third piano concertos. Was it really a children's playground? The chances of it happening after I die? Nil. But it happened just now, and in a real sense this might be Beethoven's afterlife.

On pricks, dicks and cunts.

the gods: "

We hear all the four letter words on TV at 7:30 every night. No big deal.
Funny how some find the C-word offensive but don't mind people being called 'dicks' or 'pricks'. Reverse sexism, perhaps?

As Tom Lehrer noted in the release of his remains, 25 years ago there were certain words you couldn't use around girls. Today you can use them all, you just can't call them girls.

As for dicks and pricks the best insult I ever heard was a NYC Cab driver: 'Hey, lady, you don't have to have one to be one!' The crowded intersection at 8th St and 5th Ave dissolved into laughter with of course one exception."

Palin - Debate performance.

McCain - Beliefnet Forums: "There is something to be said for setting expectations so low that just getting down the track without tripping over the lines marking the places for the hurdles is considered a brilliant performance."

Is God just spiritual experience?

Why Athism? - Beliefnet Forums: "I don't think spiritual experience is supernatural at all. I think it is a basic, indeed primitive human need. But I also see no reason not to strip God of all of Herm supernatural accretions, and use God as a referent for spiritual experience.

I will admit that disambiguation from the supernatural omnipotent alpha humanoid may be a greater challenge than I am up to, but I have come to the conclusion that God and that spiritual experience are one and the same. I also think it is what theists are trying to convey with their blather about God being the beauty of the cosmos, or a pretty sunset, or a butterfly."

Can believer Bob make up his God?

Why Athism? - Beliefnet Forums: "

There's no such thing as external charters from God since it's all made up internally by humans.

This is a strong assertion and needs strong support.

Are you saying that each believer makes up herm own God out of herm own mind? Where does the background information come from? Why is the God each believer makes up nearly identical with the God of everybody else in herm church or synagogue? Frankly, I don't think most believers are intelligent enough to create a God internally that has all the attributes of most modern Gods."

Musical Transcendence

Why Athism? - Beliefnet Forums: There are certain circumstances other than religious groups where a transcendent consciousness may be experienced. On rare occasions as a musician I have felt a resonance with the audience, and as an audience member a resonance with the musician(s) in which I feel I am sharing in the experience of the music in a way that transcends my own limited capability to understand the music. My own background in music is of course part of the greater whole, but only a small part when everything works right."

Collective God.

Why Athism? - Beliefnet Forums:
"I am convinced that a material brain can be part of a greater consciousness composed of other material brains with a similar background of myths, mores, and beliefs. I think this greater consciousness is quite natural, and quite local. The myths especially may contain supernatural beings, but the supernatural components are simply mnemonics and focusing devices for the local group to tune into. I also have no issue with calling this greater consciousness God, with the understanding that God exists naturally, only within the local group, and has no influence, for lack of a better word, outside of that local group. At this stage of my understanding I think the group is small, on the order of a few tens or hundreds of people, but it would not be inconceivable to me that the group could be larger. As an atheist I do not participate in any of these God groups, nor have I seen any advantage to trying to do so. "

Forrest's Last Sermon Again

His Death Postponed, a Minister Repeats His Farewell Sermon - NYTimes.com: "The Rev. Forrest Church gazed out from his pulpit on Sunday and, in a steady voice, delivered what may or may not be his last sermon — for the fifth time."

And may he deliver it many times over. For 30 years my only minister, through the good years, through the tough years of change 20 years ago, when eventually I left New York and my life there with $150 excess baggage mostly my speakers, to start over. He ministered happily by phone, on my occasional return trips to NYC and on line sermons. He was my first Google alert and it has been fun finding comments on his journey from all over, with the occasional Forrest speaking in his Church that Google finds as well.

He early taught me to live my life so that it will be worth dying for, and I have been trying unsuccessfully to emulate his example. His Cathedral with many windows has been my spiritual home since he helped me find it. It has made me a much more tolerant and intelligent atheist, as some of the many windows used by my religious friends have some wondrous light to enjoy.

So once again, many thanks and a virtual hug to my mentor, friend and minister. And thanks to the Times for the hug photo. So typical and all of us will slip right into that dark suit.

Reflections in humanity.

"Find Me" on the internet - Beliefnet Forums: "

Yes....'lost' in the sense of 'because nobody really 'gets me' I'm not sure about myself sufficiently to know where, who and what I am.'Just like a mirror reflects images that allow us to see ourselves, so too other humans reflect our images/thoughts/ideas back to us as they see them; when those reflections align with our perceptions, we feel 'known' and successful.

Finding others to reflect our images/thoughts is one of the hardest things about being atheist. A theist can find that reflection in God if not in the community of herm church. I would find the reflection in an imaginary being unsatisfying, and even a reflection in the community wouldn't be good enough for me. I need a real person, or a once real person like Jefferson, or even an internet real person like many of you here, to provide that reflection of perception that validates our being alive. Thank you, all of you who are providing the reflection for me, I hope I am adequately returning the favor."

Dear American

McCain, you must be joking!!! - Beliefnet Forums: "'Dear American:

I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.

I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you."

McCain's got policies.

Luckovich

Selecting the Bail Outs

Davies
Can we just ignore the fire on Wall St.?

I am having a Katrina moment

Oliphant
When all about you are blaming it on you....
Notice the shrub in the right center, and Uncle Dick's comment.

As Is Legislation

Ben Sargent
And we all know how well the Patriot Act worked out.

The Bridge to Nowhere

Oliphant
Palin and McCain learn foreign policy from Wylie Coyote.

Does God Exist?

Pascal's Wager : "Whether God exists or not is of no importance. Hesh may or may not, it makes no difference to me at all. Even if Hesh existed I would not worry about God judging me, as I am judged constantly in every thing that I do by my fellow humans and of course by the harshest judge of all, myself. If God exists I will be judged by how responsible I was to my family, my friends, and my society, and ultimately by how well I executed the moral values taught to me throughout my life by my family, my friends, and my society. Any God that would use any other criteria is not a God but a petty tyrant."

McCain, you must be joking!!!

McCain, you must be joking!!! :

Remember it was McCain's lack of social conservative cred that gave the Huckabee campaign so much traction to begin with. It is pretty obvious that McCain's 'turn to the right' on social issues is just an election year ploy and not an indicator of what his policies would be.

So lets see, I just ignore the evidence of the Palin appointment and the $ource$ of the money in his campaign, and have faith that there will be pie in the sky by and by. Maybe God will provide.

I'll work for Obama, thank you, at least his campaign is WYSIWYG. No betting on a return to policies that were simply political ploys then. The straight talk express is simply a glider. It goes wherever the $political wind$ blow it."

"Find Me" on the internet

"Find Me" on the internet - Beliefnet Forums:

When asked what he wants most in life, August answers, "To be found." This, I believe, is one of the most profound and simple statements one human can make and it explains an innate purpose for living that we rarely admit to ourselves. What good would there come from 'living forever' if you had to do it "alone?" I say "alone" in the sense that you might be surrounded by people, even family, that don't necessarily "find you."

One of the wonders of the internet is that almost insignificant minorities, in our case atheists, can 'find' one another and make connections that can in some cases transcend death. In response to a blog post you mentioned our late friend from the "late" boards at beliefnet Charles Fiterman. I responded with an obscure reference to his appreciation thread and his daughter asked me about it on the blog. In effect, you must have been a friend of my father, but I don't know you. Who are you?"

Indoctrinating Children

Do believers really believe? - Beliefnet Forums: "It is quite natural for humans to indoctrinate their children in the ways of their society. In fact it would be inhuman not to. If the ways of their society are religious, as they are for much of the world, indoctrinating children to believe instead of think is natural and will insure that the child will fit right in with the society of which hesh is a part.

Whether this is a good thing for a modern, knowledge based, cosmopolitan society, is an entirely different question which I think will be answered naturally by social evolution. Those societies where the children are indoctrinated to think rather than believe, seem to be ascendant (I am talking China and India here) and those societies where children are taught to believe seem to be having trouble even maintaining their infrastructure."

Assembly of a lesser god

uuworld.org : assembly of a lesser god: "Belief and worship are powerful tools for organizing thought and behavior. If others get control of those tools, they can make us dance like puppets. But if we’re careful, we can learn to pull our own strings."

The article and conclusion are probably not worth reading. The abstract says it all except:

Evolution has strongly reinforced the traits for belief and worship. We have them whether we like them or not.

The placebo effect works. All you have to do is believe. Believe it.

Cranky and Bullslinger

Lalo Alcaraz — Gocomics.com: Comics, editorial cartoons, email comics, comic strips

John and Sarah who?

Whose hand in the cookie jar?

Glen McCoy

The only problem is that Obama’s hand isn’t in the cookie jar. It is McCain that is addicted to the fat cat’s cookies. My few bucks to Obama didn’t even buy me a cookie crumb. It did get me some spam however.

Follow the leader.

Walks like a Duck:

What a hoax perpetuated on humanity, some clever guy invents a 'God' patterned after a King, realizing that would make his religion acceptable to the King, and is able to hoodwink billions! It shows that we haven't progressed much from the cave man times.

There are good reasons that humans have evolved a trait to follow almost blindly a strong leader. In times of serious social stress it is fatal to ones genome to do otherwise. It may be fatal to ones genome to follow the wrong strong leader, but that is a different issue, and is the reason I said 'almost blindly.' It is important to choose one's leader wisely when possible.

The most pernicious aspect of religion is not that it co-opts this trait, this is necessary and useful for most people, but that it damns any questioning of the leader. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me is the first commandment of any God, and even thinking about another is grounds for excommunication. In many societies excommunication can be fatal to the genome, so blind faith in the 'God of our Fathers' is a strongly reinforced trait.

The Enlightenment exposed the men behind the curtain of God, and allowed even the religious, at least the religious whose reasoning facility had not been totally suppressed, to begin to choose their God, or no god if that seemed preferable. Excommunication is still not pleasant, but it is no longer fatal. One intelligent enough to question herm god is usually intelligent enough to find a more benevolent God or make herm way in the secular society.
__________________"

Parentocracy

Libertarianism: : "Personally I prefer a Parentocracy, where those capable of providing a home for children are the only ones with a franchise. Bring in a kid's report card and you can vote. It can be old, or a grandkid's will work, but proof of school age children once in the household is required.

Parents have a vested interested in the long term viability of their society, and have demonstrated their willingness to accept responsibility for their actions. Sure there will be flakes and idiots that slip through the cracks, but overall parents would be the best choice for the franchise."

Gender inclusive pronouns

Hell - Beliefnet Forums:

Heshe?
Anne Heche?

I am sorry but these pretentious gender-neutral pronouns used here strike me as a complete and utter wank. Wanky, wankish and wanker inspired.

The term is gender inclusive. (Your sexist bias is showing. Only males wank.)

If you prefer he/she/it, pronounced heesheeit in ordinary conversation when you are talking about a person or entity the gender of which is unimportant, be my guest. Or perhaps you would like to emphasize the feminine, she/he/it pronounced sheeheeit a very common expletive in the south of the US.

Language is important to our thinking, as we think in language. I live with a couple of people whose native language is Asian. Occasionally communication in English is difficult because of some of the language based assumptions in their (and my) thinking. As a relevant example people are not referred to as having gender in some Asian languages. Everybody is referred to as she, balls or not. It does color their thinking as referring to testosterone driven activities of a certain gender will go over their heads as they don't think in gender terms.

I find it useful to think that way myself, and have created some pronouns to help me do so. They are occasionally jarring to my thinking but in general it is a good thing, as it highlights the sexist assumptions that are built into my language. As a relevant example a famous scientist was unable to introduce a female full professor to a room full of people because his language had no word for female colleague.

I was involved peripherally in making the UU hymnal gender neutral, and was quite surprised to find how sexism colored my thinking about God. The God I rejected as a youthful atheist had balls and a prick which He used to fuck everybody that crossed Him.

Thinking of God as a gender neutral Parent combining the qualities of mom as well as dad changed my view of God considerably. He wasn't a testosterone driven asshole anymore, but a helping mentor. A teacher, professor type who never got upset with mistakes, (but never forgave them and made one get it right no matter how long it took.) Ultimately that view didn't work for me as God either, but it did help me organize my internal image of the group of mentors, male and female that determined the morality and purpose in my life. "