Beliefnet
iama: We know that "all die."
JCarlin: End of story. Get used to it.
iama: You have evidence?
Yep.
In a long lifetime with many friends of all ages, I have been to many
funerals, and other rituals associated with the end of life. In many
the celebrant said nice things about the deceased being "with God" and
that we should be happy that their alloted life of woe and sin is over,
including the devoted wife and mother of a 2 year old child I was
godfather for. In 100% of the deaths, the living had no further contact
with the deceased, except for memories of the good times when the
deceased played, sang, enlightened, and otherwise brought joy to our
lives. It didn't matter what faith they were, real memories, were the
only contact anyone had. Ever.
I
was at a Catholic Requiem Mass recently where the celebrant made rude
comments in the homily about celebrations of the lives of the deceased,
implying that those lives were worthless, and that the only important
thing was that the deceased was happy in heaven or would be at some
point. But all those still living wanted to talk about was the
influence the deceased had on their lives and how they would miss it now
that (whisper it) the deceased was with God.
In all the funerals, and celebrations of life, I have been to, not even
once has the deceased been present in the moment even lying in the
casket, to share the stories, the songs, and all that made their life
worth living. Nor has any been back since except in memory to report on
their experiences with God, or the worms, or even the mingling of the
material remains with a beautiful sacred place for them.
No
matter really, the living do it for them and keep the meaning of that
sacred place alive for them. Part of the cremains of my sister are
near the grave of her beloved Chopin, and even the picture of her son
placing them can evoke the many times she shared Chopin and others with
us on whatever piano was available. Actually, not even a picture is
necessary, any thoughts of her always included either her sharing music
or her kitchen with all who loved her for both and the wisdom and love
that were a part of either sharing.
beliefnet
I believe nothing as beliefs are
incompatible with that learning. The mind is configured to protect
beliefs, and the only counter is to root out the beliefs, be aware of
them and be ready to sprinkle a little salt on them as needed.
What do you mean here?
Of course you believe things about reality. Are you just saying you are
open to changing your currently tentatively held beliefs?
Thetanager
I define "belief" as an emotionally
accepted truth that needs no verification. "God exists" is a belief.
"Fox News is fair and balanced" is a belief. According to noted skeptic
Michael Shermer in The Believing Brain beliefs
come first and are defended later. He further argues with strong
scientific backing that information that tends to weaken or refute the
belief is not even processed by the brain. "Fox News is BS" is not even
heard by a believer in Fox News. The "La, la, la, I can't hear you" is
not figurative according to Shermer, it is a true statement.
I
don't confuse "belief" with "true" in regard to statements or "real" in
regard to the material world. Both "true" and "real" are ultimately
verifiable by independent means. "You are 33" is a statement that I
tentatively accept as true, but if someone else said it is false, we
could resolve the dispute factually with documentation. "The chair is
real" can be verified by sitting on it. You need not believe the chair
is real. If you were concerned you would sit tentatively and if it
seemed substantial possibly rock on it to verify that it is functional
as a chair.
Beliefnet
My finite life is meaningful only if I
learn all I can about how to make my world a more beautiful and benign
space for all in it. I believe nothing as beliefs are incompatible with
that learning. The mind is configured to protect beliefs, and the only
counter is to root out the beliefs, be aware of them and be ready to
sprinkle a little salt on them as needed.
But
learning is useless unless I practice and teach what I have learned so
that others can help while I am alive and carry on after I am no longer
alive. I can still teach after I am no longer alive either directly
through stories that are remembered by others, or by the actions of
others I have taught well. It is quite comforting to know that much of
what I have learned is from people and things that are no longer living.
My world, as am I,
is finite. It consists of everything that is affected by my actions or
teachings. I am comfortable with this. There are many who because of
truth or beliefs live in worlds (societies) that I cannot affect. I am
not bothered by this. They go their way I go mine. The divide if any
is created by their truth and beliefs which do not allow them to respond
to the learning of my ERSSG.
It may be that they are right and we are wrong, but evolution selects
strongly for flexible learning. I will bet my life on that.
From Miniver Cheevy
Winning does not tempt that man.
This is how he grows: by being defeated, decisively,
by constantly greater beings.
Rainer Maria Rilke
